US polygamist leader pleads not guilty, will be tried on charges of forcing girl to marry adult
The Associated Press
Published: 2006-12-14 13:20:11
ST. GEORGE, Utah: A judge ordered the leader of a polygamist sect Thursday to stand trial on charges of rape as an accomplice on allegations that he forced a 14-year-old girl to marry and have sex with an older cousin in 2001.
Warren Jeffs, 51, pleaded not guilty Thursday in state court. The leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints could face up to life in prison if convicted.
The woman, now 20, was not in the courtroom to hear Washington County Judge James Shumate's decision. She testified last month that she felt "completely trapped and defeated" during a ceremony at a Nevada motel — the "darkest time of my entire life."
The woman, identified as Jane Doe No. 4, left the sect after 3 1/2 years, remarried and had a baby last week.
Jeffs' defense team contends he is being pursued for his religious beliefs.
In his closing argument, defense attorney Wally Bugden told Shumate he would be making a "factual leap" to find probable cause for a trial.
"Saying I don't want to get married is not the same as saying I don't want to have intercourse," Bugden said.
The FLDS sect traces its roots to early Mormon theology, which promoted plural marriage. The modern Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints disavows polygamy and renounced the practice in 1890 as a condition of Utah's statehood.
Members of the FLDS consider themselves "fundamentalist Mormons" who continue to believe polygamy will bring glory in heaven. They also consider Jeffs a prophet of God with dominion over their salvation.
Many sect members live in the twin towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Arizona.
Jeffs also faces felony charges in Arizona, accused there of arranging a marriage between a 16-old-girl and a 28-year-old man, who was already married.
Jeffs, at the time one of the FBI's Ten Most Wanted fugitives, was arrested Aug. 28 in a traffic stop on Interstate 15 just north of Las Vegas. He is being held without bail in county jail.
Copyright © 2006 the International Herald Tribune All rights reserved
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13 comments:
I think what is happening to Warren Jeffs is rudiculous unfair and unconstitutional.I don't beleive in polygamy, but I do believe according to our constitution that everybody has a right to honor and practice their religious beliefs, even if those beleifs are diffrent from others.
How did that girl wind up being in that group? Are they trying them as accomplist
to rape. Of coure not!
Yet they are the ones who brought her into that group.Not Jeffs.
I'm sure she was raised like every child of any religion is... to be a good mormon fundamentalist
(I think I spelled that right). Many children are raised with religious beleifs they don't believe in or understand and when they become adults, if they still disagree .. they leave ... as this girl did. They don't go back and take their parents or their preachers to
court, unless theri was some kind of crime or violation. This was a ceremony attended by witnessneses , just like ton of other ceremonies those in that group attended. The only people who think what is happening is a crime are people who are not a part of that group. Nobody in that group sees it that way ... because its THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEF. Its funny
...a lot of people who don't go to church, think its a crime that many Pastors earn big salaries and drive nice cars and where fine clothes ...but the people who attend those churches don't think its a crime, because if they did they'd stop going.They don't because ...THEY
BELEIVE IN IT ... AND IN THIS COUNTRY PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO PRACTICE WHAT THEY BELIEVE To trump up a charge against
a religious practice
just because it not something that you don't practise is wrong! Jeffs merely performed a ceremony and just honored and carried out the same tradition that the founding fathers of his religion practiced ... and their accusing him as being an accomplist to a rape... just because THEY DON'T BELEIVE in the practices of his religion. Unbelieveable! I don't believe in a ton of things that a lot of these differnt cultures and groups practice ...but I do believe and celebrate the right this country has granted them all to
to live out what they believe. How dare anybody try to take that right away. What they are doing to Jeffs is flat out wrong.
Karl
the problem is that we have laws, we are a nation of laws. the law says that a minor (in most states) can not have sex with anyone if they are under the age of 16. furthermore, we the people have the right to define marriage as we see fit and have the right to direct our states to honor marriage only in the terms we decide. we the people believe that marriage is for one man and one women.
I'm with you on some levels, sorta, so long as they are not married. if some dude wants to shack up with a bunch of women and support them and their children himself...and if the women feel the same way...then I don't care. just don't call it marriage, not in legal terms at least.
I can't say that I totally disagree with you journal. The problem I have is where do we draw the line? What if this started at an even younger age that would be more discusting in our minds, like say a 4 year old? Obviously the parents, or who ever involved this child into this cult should be held responsible, ALONG WITH the person permitting this by being willing to actually cause it to happen by marrying them both, ALONG WITH the adult who would marry her and have sexual relations with her! Where do we draw the line? 1 year old? 5? 9? 14? 16? I also agree with Irreverend Fox on the fact that we are a nation of laws, and for the most part (although not always), they are to protect people and children from pscho's that would use the name of religion to be able to "legally" mollest and or rape a child! I think all involved in a case such as this should be punished, however it could be a fine line seeing as though we do not want government stepping in and saying to the church what it can and cant do...if it is Biblical. For instance Homosexuality being preached as clearly being a sin, should never be considered illegal, or a hate crime, for the church to preach against such sinful behavior. Just as the church should also be able to preach against all sin, such as Adultery, Lying, Coveting, Theft, etc... So the govt should not get involved with that freedom, but if the so called church is going to molest, and or rape a child, it would be a sin for someone not to stop it! If it were not for the name of religion, and this took place in a dark alley, all involved, if caught, would be punished!
Nobody has a right to define for another what they MUST believe in so says the constitution that "we the people" wrote, as you say. And even though "we the people"
make the laws, "we the people" have many times passed laws that "we the people" later regreted and then changed them because they relized later that the laws they passed were unconstituional, and they fixed them. Why do people continue to make the same mistakes over and over. This country is always passing laws that violate the rights of others and then we look back in history and say "what were they thinking" and then the future generations suffer because of the last generations mistakes.
Just because "we the people" make laws it does'nt mean that all the laws that are passed, are right.
Nobody seems to care when the laws violate others rights,but as soon as a law is passed to violate THEIR OWN RIGHTS, then everybody wants to institute new laws.
Laws that are passed that don't allow people to practice their faiths, are wrong
In regards to Warren Jeffs, he did not have sex with a minor.No one says he has. And I'm sure they'll find that he would have never sanctioned the marriage unless their parents agreed. And if THEY agreed "Why is he on trial for being an accomplist to rape and not them".
IT's simply because they disagree with what his group believes in . If somebody's bible or golden book, Koran (or whatever) calls something "a marriage"
I don't care how the law defines it. People are going to define it the way THEIR FAITH defines it. Its THEIR faith! whether we believe in it or not.
The law was not in Jesus's favor when he physically walked this earth, and it was the laws that was used to crucify him. Was the law right? When you think about laws, think about that. THE LAWS ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT, and people who pass laws that work to stop people from practicing THEIR faith, are wrong.
Karl
My faith/religion teaches that I shall kill the infidel. If you don't follow my Koran, then death to you is good! I agree with american journal that I should be able practice and carry out my faith in killing the infidel!
I agree with you American, IF...let me repeat, IF he did not have sex with a minor, and IF they find that he did not sanction the marriage unless their parents agreed, then I agree with you that he should not be the one charged, but if anything, the parents, and the one to marry her, should be charged. With that said, you may be right about the law sometimes being wrong, but if we allow anyone for their own personal beliefs to break the law, there can be no shortage of problems to come. What if my belief is that speed limits are taking away my religious freedom to fly with the angels as fast as I want? What if I truly believe that speed limits are more of a hazard than freedom to speed? This could go on and on. Where do we seperate a faith or religious conviction, to a cult or a wrongful act in the name of a so called religion? What about that crazy muslim who because of his faith, thinks it a honor to kill the infidel (any non muslim, or even a muslim whom he does not think is living up to the koran) and he therefore either does kill the infidel, or participates somehow in the act? What is the answer to that problem? I guess it boils down to right and wrong. There is only 1 right way of doing things...There is absolute truth, and there is no other religion, faith, book, or person, other than Jesus Christ, and the Holy Bible to which life eternal with God can be obtained. It's as simple as that. Jesus is the only way (He said it Himself!)...yes He is exclusively the only right way to Heaven. And by the way, if you actually follow the Bible, reading it in context, Christians will love their enemies, praying for them. They will be servants. They will let others have the better seats, or be first in line. They will help the friend and the enemy who is in need of help. They will obstain from sexual immorality (fornication, adultery, lusting, pornography, sex with minors, or anyone other than spouse, etc.) They will lift you up, when you fall. When you sin, they will pick you up and pray for you, and try to restore you to repentance, and to a right relationship again with God, in love. And when they mess up and sin, they will truly repent, and not just use that as an excuse to keep sinning on purpose. However, cults state to kill non believers, have sex with minors, or many. To worship the creation rather than the creator. Thats its okay to indulge in self want (the flesh). Cults are based on things that if allowed to be law, and if the Govt was not allowed to stop, then there would be horrible consequences. However, if Christianity was allowed to be law, and if the Govt was not allowed to stop it, (and if it was true Christianity), then what would you have? People trying to please God by loving others, by praying for others, by helping others, by sharing the truth, even if it offends, by being pleasers of God, rather than pleasers of man, etc. The world would be a much better place. Merry Christmas all!
And by the way...our founding fathers of this Country founded this country on Biblical Principals, not the koran, or any other book! If they do not like it, then go elsewhere, its their freedom to do that. We won't cut off their heads...just dont force us to have to allow people to be sworn into office with their koran, and follow their ways. We are primarily a Christian nation, and that is how it should stay. If you want to follow the koran, dont force it on us, and if you dont like it, go to your country where the koran is honored. I would love to see you take your Bible to Iran or Syria, etc, and demand to them that you be sworn in on the Bible! Also demand that you build a Christian church next to their mosque! Also try broadcasting your Christian prayers and beliefs over PA systems in their country! Also demand that prayer rooms be built in their airports, etc. Good luck with all that!
I don't care if the parents allowed it! I don't care if even the girl gave in to it! They are minors for a reason! They are too young to know any better to make decisions about sex and marriage, and whoever would try to warp their young innocent minds by brainwashing them into thinking it's okay, because its their faith is a nut job that needs to be punished...including all involved: the parents, the pastor, the person who would marry and sleep with her, etc. Plain and simple! They are children for crying out loud!
here's the thing that everybody must understand...the Bible is not clear when it's ok for a man to have sex with a women...other than the fact that the two must be married.
now we are getting crazy.
For example, Mary probably had Jesus around 12-15ish...meaning she was having sex with Joseph, a man at least 30-35, after they were married, by the time she was 13-16ish... Does that make Jospeh a rapist in God's eyes? does it in yours?
This gets deep.
Different cultures set the age differently...all culture agree that a female not through puberity is too young to have sex with anybody..."married" or not...then after that point the age goes up...in our society 16 is the age of consent, in most states. But in some states you can have sex with a 16 year old, cross the border and do it again and be arrested for rape. so in one state it is "rape" and another it is not "rape".
We the people decide our laws and if we the people look back and feel that we the people made a mistake then we the people will fix it. This is the United States, not China or Iran.
Ok, so what is my point? My point is that our society generally has set the age of consent at 16 and 18 for marriage. Period. The United States is not a free for all. If you want to marry many "women" at the same time, 15 years old or 14 or whatever, then move to the Sudan. If that is your religion and your religious belief then hit the road, you are not welcome here. This not a free for all, everybody is not welcomed in the US. We don't welcome Islamic terrorists, devil worshipers who kill babies, or Christian people who burn witches at the stake...despite the fact that all three do it in the name of their religion. We say, "hit the road, your sincerly held religious belief is not welcomed here".
We the people do not welcome polygamists here. again, the Sudan is "that way" (pointing east)
The lines SHOULD BE DRAWN where there's interference. For instance .. why should I care if a man and 4 women all AGREE to a marriage. It dos'nt interfere with anything I do. It does'nt change my opinion of it. It dos'nt change my christian belief. The community I'm a part of believes in monogamy and would never tolerate polygamy amongst OURSELVES,it's against OUR faith. Therefore the polygamist would not want to be amongst US. Thats why they live in their OWN communities. Thats the way THEY want it. They are not trying to change us or even trying to make us accept them. They just want to be left alone to live out their beliefs in ther OWN communties.
If on the other hand if they came into a community that did not believe in polygamy and insisted that that community change its beliefs ... thats interfering. They have no right to insist that I change as I am not a part of their community. Those religions that teach their followers to "kill the infidels" ... are interfering with the lives of others . They can teach whatever they want, but according to our constitution, they have no right to interfere with my pursuit if happiness.. Thats where the lines should be drawn. When you endanger or interfere with someone elses life you are crossing a line that should not be crossed. Driving a hundred miles an hour on the same road that I am on endangers my life, therefore it can not be tolerated because it interferes. If its out in the country someplace and no one else is there... if a person blieves its right why can't it be done? It dos'nt interfere with anyones life. And if it causes their death it is at their owns choosing. If it can cause MY death ... without my choosing .. it is wrong.
No ADULT should be given the right to interfere with another ADULTS life or choice unless whats being done interferes with them. Jesus said if they won't receive keep walking and shake off the dust. He never said its our responsiblity to change the ways of the ungodly. Jesus never used the government to make people conform to the word. He just preached it. In my opinion its lame for Christians to rely on the law to enforce the christian message.
It is not the governments responsibilty to MAKE people do what "the Word" says . Its not even the christians responsiblity. We are simply responsible for living it out and preaching it. Not MAKING other people do it.
Why are we insistant on MAKING "Jeffs" and his group adhere to what we believe.
They do what they do in THEIR communites.
They are not interested in living next door to you. They want to be amongst people like themselves. What does what they do have to do with us. Thats why Arabs in America live in Arab communites, Amish in America live in Amish communities. Folks who believe in polygamy live in polygamist communities. (I bet no one on this blog has never even met a polygamist) They live different lives, they go to different churches. They don't interfere with our ways.
We MAY be a country that was built on christian principles, but when we came here there were people who were not christians. Some were converted, some were not, none were forced by law to convert, none were run out of the country and those who would not convert were allowed to stay and live out there practices in their communities. They were not our customs and their customs did not interfere with ours. Though the things they practiced were very different from what we practiced, how they lived brought no harm to our society, very few if any from our society were even the least bit interested in adopting their customs (the same as in this current situation ) and so they were allowed to continue on. Thats what our our country is all about
Karl
first of all, yes we do have the right to discriminate, that's where you are wrong. we do all the time. brothers and sisters can not marry, I don't think first cousins can’t either. Discrimination is not always a bad term.
such arrangements do interfere with society. for example, for companies that offer health benefits to the families of their workers, polygamy would bankrupt them...which would simply drive companies out of area's of high concentration of polygamists...no company wants to go under…they’ll just shut the doors and move elsewhere…which would literally destroy those economies. OR, companies would no longer offer such benefits to any employees lest they be sued for discrimination...then who foots the bill? we are not just talking about the health insurance of three or four adults under one plan...but all their kids...15-20 total people or more! The burden of paying for the health care ALONE of all those people in one household would force people to turn to the state, which again, would simply devastate the resources of that state…it would cause an economic domino effect to disaster.
On top of that, we the people have deemed such arrangements totally immoral and unhealthy for society at large and unhealthy for the children involved. We the people also feel that polygamy is in fact a powerful form of abuse, not to mention unsafe sexual practice.
we discriminate against homosexual marriage for similar reasons. if your try to redefine marriage in any way then the door to polygamy is blown wide open which leads to the problems I just mentioned.
we are not a conglomerate of separate groups. we are one nation, under God. we elect men and women who reflect our values to legislate laws to protect OUR society and OUR way of life and OUR morality and then we push and enforce OUR way on all OUR citizens by means of force. This is not new…I'm not writing in Yiddish here, it should not be hard to understand. the only thing needed to be said in order to end the discussion is that we the people are against polygamy for moral and economic reasons. nobody's rights have been violated. Jeffs is not allowed to marry more than one women...nor am I...nor is anybody, you see? it's equal. Jeffs is allowed to marry one women, that is not his sister, mother or cousin, one at a time, as am I and everybody else. see? it's equal. NOBODY is allowed to marry their sister, therefore, the law is just because it applies to ALL.
the united states is not a free for all. “to each his own” is not the American way, we the people have spoken.
I said:
"the law is just because it applies to ALL."
I should rephrase that...applying to all doesn't make it just...but...not applying to all would make it unjust without question.
Irrevered Fox ...
In regards to "the benefits thing" . If polygamy was legal and a company's policy was NOT to provide benefits to polygamous familes or gays or anybody because they did'nt believe in it, they shoud'nt HAVE to do it especiallly if its not something that they believe in.
On the other hand if a company WANTED to provide those benefits and could afford to ... why should they be STOPPED BY LAW from doing it? Its their company, their money and their negotiations and it does not require that other companies who don't believe in it ... do what they do. If a company felt it would drive them bankrupt, then just don't do it. Why would they have to? No one should be FORCED BY LAW into things that they do or don't believe in as long as it does'nt intefere with someone elses pursuits.
That is my position
You also say that "We the people" feel polygamy to be an unhealthy and immoral environment. When you say "we the people" you must only be talking about only the people who think LIKE YOU. You could'nt possibly be speaking in behalf of the people of the United States, beause the people of the United States are NOT UNITED IN THOUGHT BY FAR in a lot of matters and it reflects in every election that we have. "We the people" have put people in office and instituted laws that even YOU have not always felt were right. "We the people" who you speak so proudly of have allowed prayer to be taken out of the school and done nothing to get it back. Since you want to keep indentifying yourself as "WE the people" and and want folks to recognize that thats the group YOU are a part of remember "YOU are also as part of that group .... the"We the people" group who has outlawed prayer in school. And since "the prayer issue" has been the decision of "WE the people" you should be content with it or just leave .. because "We the people" have spoken. "We the people" have said "They don't want it".
I myself am personaly against the decision that "We the people" made about prayer as most Christians are. And thats why many Christians are and are working to get it back,. Unfortunately my friend if you're going to be a part of "We the people" who you say are the majority, you got to stand with "We the people" on all issues. You can't just separate yourself when its an favor of an issue you support
Thats where the fundamentalist Mormons are. The government has outlawed things that they believe in, in the same way that the goverment and the majority has outlawed things that many Christians believe in. You say we are a whole nation. Then it is the whole nation that is outlawing these things and not separate groups, since according to you, we are not a conglomerate of separtae groups.
IS IT separate groups that are outlawing these things or is it one whole nation? If you are sticking to your initial theory, then it IS the whole nation that has outlawed prayer, and we should be proud of the decisons that OUR nation and OUR society and "We the people" have made according to you. If you on the other hand are honest with yourself, you would have to say, I am not in agreement with every decision that "We the people" have made, nor are many Christians nor Mormons nor Muslims. We have all seen decsions made via election and by government that have
worked against our beliefs. Are we to just to say "Oh well .... the people have spoken and thats the way it must be" No! ... Our constitution has given us ALL the right to stand up for what we believe and work to change things. That right is not just given to mainstream Christians, it is given to every citizen of every religious background in this country. That includes the people of Warren Jeffs group. And the same as laws have often times changed in favor of other groups not in the majority , they have the right to challenge the laws to change in their favor as well. And believe or not Sometimes the majority listens to the minority. That how we got civil rights laws
A large group of men who were very religious and very much in favor of the nations laws wanted a women who had been caught in adultry to be stoned. The law of the land said she should be stoned
as well as the scripture. According to these men she was a breaker of the govermental laws and their scripturual laws the same as "Warren Jeffs" , yet the law was not enforced and she was'nt stoned. Not because Jesus saw nothing wrong with what she had done. Nor just because there was no one there without sin. Jesus was there and he WAS without sin, and he would have been in keeping with the law to cast the stone, but he did'nt. Thats because seeing to it that scripture was ENFORCED AND PUSHED on the ungodly was not his thing? Obviously, the majority of christians today are not trying to follow that example ... they are like you, they want the laws pushed and enforced on the ungoldly (with intentions of protecting society) as you suggested, the same as did the pharisees did. Does'nt sound like Jesus at all to me
Karl
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